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说了半天,这个问题是个复杂社会问题,政治人物都无解,LZ自己阵营吱吱呜呜,指责对方没有底气.我不知道Obama怎样/如何吱吱呜呜,没有原始报道我不能人云亦云,一般讲,自由党/民主党对此理直气壮:生育权和不生育权(堕胎权)是妇女人权,不能用圣经做政治道德判断,Over.反而保守人士

有想法永远不敢大声说出来,就像楼主那个莽撞人:“:根据圣经,在卵子受精的时刻,生命就诞生了,应受到保护. 偶这个中立人士也很干脆: 根据个人经历,在听到婴儿心跳时,他就是人了.谁敢杀他老子先宰了你.”

没有一个保守党/共和党职业政客,敢于这么明目张胆地说出来,没有一个保守党/共和党职业政客,允许他的阵营的干部群众,公开这样表达,虽然他们当中很多人会这样想。否则这是政治自杀行为,妇女的选票哗啦啦哗啦啦地跑掉,胎儿不管TA是人不是人,本来没有选票,结果一张也得不到,这是一个赔本买卖。

在美国加拿大选举中,谁最怕讨论胎儿权利和堕胎合/非法?是保守党和共和党。楼主在华人小圈子里,违反党的纪律,挑起这个争论,显然不在状况之中,好在对党的损害不大,毕竟华人不是主流。
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Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 枫下茶话 / 政治经济 / 为虾米一个普通人都能回答的问题, Obama只能吱吱呜呜? 问题是”你认为在怀孕的那个阶段,婴儿能享有人权?”, 既享有生存权,而不是像母亲的盲肠或扁桃体一样.
    本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛最近才看到Obama的一段录像,在Interview中,有人问了Obama这个问题, Obama却答不出来,只能东拉西扯一段.

    其实这个问题不复杂,一般人都能回答. 特别是任何经历过怀孕的人都会在某一天称体内的孩子”他或她”而不是”它”. 奇怪的是左派对这个问题从没能直接回答.

    随着科技进步, 婴儿的生存权问题是一个存在巨大争议但不可回避的题目.比如,试管婴儿如果父母改变主意不想要了,有没有权生存下?. 如果代孕双方的一方改变想法,不想要了, 婴儿有没有权生存下去? 还有最恐怖的问题,打胎时婴儿出来了,但没有死,这时母亲和医生有没有权力把他/她再杀死. 这些难题将会迎刃而解如果婴儿的生存权问题有了答案.

    曾几何时,孩子还是被认为是家长的私物,杀死也是家法. 有些地方,妻子只不过是丈夫的财产,火烧沉猪笼都是丈夫的权力.而随着社会的进步,妇女儿童都有了人权,受到保护,连家中的猫狗也都能免遭虐待.可是未出生的婴儿却还没有得到应有的保护.

    在Rolia上问了这个问题.右派很爽快:根据圣经,在卵子受精的时刻,生命就诞生了,应受到保护. 偶这个中立人士也很干脆: 根据个人经历,在听到婴儿心跳时,他就是人了.谁敢杀他老子先宰了你.

    左派最困难,只说”母亲有权决定婴儿的生死,别人不得干涉”既否定婴儿的生存权,却又不愿意直说.

    对生命的尊重,为口不能言的婴儿提供保护,是人类的良知. 每个成年人对这个问题应当有自己的答案.

    想作个调查,看看Rolia上的人都是虾米想法.如果不愿意在这里讲出来, 希望在10月大选中,你用选票给出答案.更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • 这个问题前几天Dion问过Harper,Harper也拒不回答。
      “Liberal Leader Stephane Dion sought last week to reopen the divisive abortion debate by challenging Prime Minister Stephen Harper to clarify his views on the issue, which dogged him in the last two federal election campaigns.”
      • 为体内婴儿提供特别保护against暴力犯罪, 这是正确的.也说明了体内婴儿和母亲体内的其它器官有区别的.重要的是为体内婴儿提供保护,而不是争论Abortion.
        • 你这不是白马非马吗?你的首贴讨论母亲怀孕时的婴儿(就是胎儿)的人权问题,但是现在不要讨论Abortion翻译成中文就是杀死胎儿的问题,你想说什么?是不是突然发现跟党中央步调不一致了?
          • 非也, 胎儿生存权的问题解决了更有利合理解决Abortion. 所以胎儿生存权是主要矛盾.这个问题不解决空口争论Abortion没有出路.
            • Bristol Palin can make babies even if she is only 17yrs, with men. "For the first time, the real image of conservative is in media spotlight by Ms. Palin: smart, brave, determined, love live, family" HAHAHAHAHA
    • No abortion, no wedlock, no legal age required to have a baby. Just like Sarah Palin’s 17yr old daughter. What a wonderful conservative’s family value. What a joke- "Sarah Palin's VP candidacy has a far more profound meaning in US politics.
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛For the first time, the real image of conservative is in media spotlight by Ms. Palin: smart, brave, determined, love live, family and God. I was in a meeting with customer when I heard the news of Sarah Palin became John McCain’s running mate. One of the customer managers was checking the news during the meeting break. Suddenly, he raised his voice “McCain picked Sarah Palin as VP”. His voice was obviously of excitement. He added “an excellent choice, an excellent choice”.

      The media always portraits conservatives as redneck. In reality, you cannot call him redneck even in your wildest dream. He holds a PHD degree from Cornell, and always has been well groomed and dressed. As far as I can remember, it was the first time he lost his cool due to the excitement for Ms. Palin.

      His unusual behavior made me wonder who Ms. Palin is. I spent some time to know her. Man, got to tell you the more I read about her, the more impressed I am. She is a living miracle, a heroic American we have not heard about for long time.

      She cleaned the corruption in State Alaska by fighting against her own party, the Republican. She is hugely popular in her state. She is a strong minded woman. She is a basketball star. She is a winner of beauty pageant. She married to a native Eskimo and raised five kids. She calls her husband “first dude” in interview with MSNBS’s Maria Batriromo.

      Their oldest son joined the Army and to be sent to Iraq. Their youngest son was born with Down syndrome and they were still celebrating his birth with joy.

      Ms. Palin is not just to lure Hillary’s supporters. She appeals to mass “new conservatives”. Those new conservatives strongly believe in conservative principles. They are well educated, very independent thinking, full of love for life, family and God. Their love is the biggest difference from the lefty elites who hate their race, their country and even the human being for polluting the environment.

      With Ms. Palin as VP candidate, the conservative base is totally excited and motivated. But her influence is far more profound than just among conservatives. Finally, Americans see a political outsider who values the principles more than her political affiliation. A person is able to find the true joy in life. A person can serve her state and family equally well.

      At last, just want to say You go girl! You transformed this dumbest election into a historical event." b

      y calgarian (拥抱爱的梦想) at 2008.8.30 21:45 (#4652621@0)
      <本文发表于: 相约加拿大:枫下论坛 www.rolia.net/forum >更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • In principal, I wholeheartedly support the right of the unborn baby and totally agree that there should a time after which abortion should not be carried out, like somewhere in between several weeks into pregnancy.
      However, if you ask to decide an accurate timeline now, it is a debatable and devisive matter. It is more like a question of "does God exist", everyone has their own interpretation and ideas, and today's technology just can't prove him/her wrong whichever side they are on. So, it'd be better to leave this important decision to the mom's and physicians they trust and provide proper education. I trust no woman will make a light decision on this matter. We should respect their decision, and not to enforce some conservative ideology upon the body of all women's in this modern age.
      • 说了半天,这个问题是个复杂社会问题,政治人物都无解,LZ自己阵营吱吱呜呜,指责对方没有底气.我不知道Obama怎样/如何吱吱呜呜,没有原始报道我不能人云亦云,一般讲,自由党/民主党对此理直气壮:生育权和不生育权(堕胎权)是妇女人权,不能用圣经做政治道德判断,Over.反而保守人士
        有想法永远不敢大声说出来,就像楼主那个莽撞人:“:根据圣经,在卵子受精的时刻,生命就诞生了,应受到保护. 偶这个中立人士也很干脆: 根据个人经历,在听到婴儿心跳时,他就是人了.谁敢杀他老子先宰了你.”

        没有一个保守党/共和党职业政客,敢于这么明目张胆地说出来,没有一个保守党/共和党职业政客,允许他的阵营的干部群众,公开这样表达,虽然他们当中很多人会这样想。否则这是政治自杀行为,妇女的选票哗啦啦哗啦啦地跑掉,胎儿不管TA是人不是人,本来没有选票,结果一张也得不到,这是一个赔本买卖。

        在美国加拿大选举中,谁最怕讨论胎儿权利和堕胎合/非法?是保守党和共和党。楼主在华人小圈子里,违反党的纪律,挑起这个争论,显然不在状况之中,好在对党的损害不大,毕竟华人不是主流。
        • it is exactly opposite. 保守党对此理直气壮人士, 自由党有想法永远不敢大声说出来. please check the youtube tape. it is a interview which just happend last month. Obama is 自由党, and Mccain is 保守党
          • 这是拙劣的视频编辑,你不觉得拿它做严肃讨论,十分可笑吗?布什,奥巴马都有口吃的时候,恨他们的人编辑剪辑一下,的确有搞笑效果,但那是comedy,你难道把它当真作为证据?
            你给的这段视频下边,有一段留言


            jsp46 (14 hours ago)
            In the real unadulterated video, Obama does not stutter and not answer. He gives a fairly long answer. You can find that video on youtube.

            我很少关心美国选举,又没有选票,就不找了。

            加拿大自由党党领的确明目张胆地质问加拿大保守党总理,澄清对于堕胎的看法,保守党总理一点没有结巴,因为他根本没有回答。政府发言人随后答称:政府的施政计划中,没有重开关于堕胎的辩论的计划。

            事实就是这样,没有经过YOUTUBE编辑
            • youwhy you don't just post the whole thing if you think you have a strong opinion?
            • that vedio show the important point. why you don't just post the whole thing if you think you have a strong opinion?
            • this vedio didn't distort anything, it highlights the important different.
        • "没有一个保守党/共和党职业政客,敢于这么明目张胆地说出来" 哈哈哈哈, 看看McCain和Obama的回答吧. McCain的回答没有丝毫犹疑"在conception", 而Obama"It is beyond my paygrade"
      • I admire your courage admitting the rights of the unborn. Hope one day, you will take actions to protect their right to live, since they cannot defend themselves.
    • 奢谈婴儿人权反对堕胎反对pro-choice的人,我觉得真是t-m-d站着说话不腰疼,这么要求别人太虚伪了!你自己去养一个弱智儿子/女儿试试看!你不但自己一辈子要搭进去,而且大概要花很多别人贡献的税钱。反过来孩子还不一定觉得来此世上走一遭是件高兴骄傲的事。
      • Valid point
      • how do you know that 孩子还不一定觉得来此世上走一遭是件高兴骄傲的事?
        • 事实上弱智人士大多比普通人快乐,智商越高的人反而更容易痛苦。
          • 请看这里面,第一个人也许会赞同你,但第二个,第三个。。。等等多数低智能人呢?
            
            
            
            • well, normal people feel bad about them. but those disabled people do have the right to live if they don't want to end their life.
              • 我明白楼主的意思。这些人中的大多数其实更想有个正常的来生。it's not they should terminate their life after they started; it's that they prefer not to START this life -- abortion is to stop before the self-conscious life starts!
                • Thank u! finally someone from the left would not mingle it with abortion. If you prefer, the other way I can put the question is "when does life start?", and "who can start life and own other life?"
    • Still arguing about abortion right in 21st century which is passed as law in 1970s. the Republican is such horriblly stupid animal
      and unfair to women.